Hello all, it's TinyBaer here [and on Ko-Fi and BlueSky]. Happy festive holiday times to all, and a happy New Year to come! Please accept this silly comic as a belated holiday gift. đ
City Guards: WOTS GOING ON HERE?! SOME SORT OF ILLEGAL GATHERING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT? AND YOU WITH THE DRUM, DON'T YOU KNOW GOOD FOLKS ARE TRYING TO GET SOME SLEEP?
Magi: Now see here, we are 3 Kings---
City Guards: That's nice! We'll have to add illegal gambling to the list of charges! But we got you beat with two sets of 4 of a Kind! INTO THE WAGON WITH THE WHOLE LOT OF YA!
Joseph: But tonight, we've birthed the Savior---
City Guard: Interesting name for an insurrection. TELL IT TO THE MAGESTRATE! COME ON. COME ON. GET A MOVE ON...
The current canonized Bible doesn't say. Several very old books that were rejected for canonization do specify.
For example, the Armenian Infancy Gospel, which was in use around 500-600 AD, is where the idea that the wise men/magi were Kings came from, and it gives them their "traditional" names: Gaspar (from India), Balthasar (from Arabia), and Melchior (from Persia).
Iâm not sure how you can claim the book was rejected for canonization, when it didnât come into being until hundreds of years after canonization. Thatâs like me claiming that the Victorian police rejected me as a suspect in the Jack the Ripper slayings.
Ah yes, the guy claiming that people donât know what theyâre talking about, thinks the bible wasnât canonized until the MID-SIXTEENTH CENTURY?! Dude, thatâs hysterical. Thanks for the laugh!
There are multiple Christian canons. The only still really well established canon older as you're talking about is that followed by Catholics; Lutherans, Orthodox, Anglicans, etc all have their own and all came much later.
Let's be honest, the fact that Mary had to give birth in a stable is totally on them, they should have known everything will be booked around Christmas.......
This is the same thing, just more specific. Anachronisms include things that are from the past and things that are from the future, prochronisms are anachronisms that specifically refer to something that is placed earlier than it should be
Its funny cuz Mary fucked the neighbors made up a story and thousands of years later we still dealing with dumb mother fuckers that cant accept she was out hoe'n. Grow up yallÂ
I read something recently about this. Kenneth Bailey was a middle Eastern scholar said thisâ
 Joseph would have a link to his hometownâhometown being where his family is fromâso even if heâd never stepped foot in Bethlehem, he could recite family genealogy and heâd instantly be among friends. Further, heâs literal royalty since heâs in the house of David, meaning even if he canât find actually family, he should be able to still find a home willing to take him in.Â
Also the middle eastern society of that day would never turn away a pregnant woman.
And then there was something about how homes were laid in that time. The âstableâ was attached to a home, and the manger was accessible to the livestock in the stable, but sounds like it was actually in the adjacent family room where they would sleep (and cook and liveâŚ). âAny Palestinian reading the phrase, "She laid him in a manger," would immediately assume that the birth took place in a private home, because he knows that mangers are built into floor of the raised terrace of the peasant home."
Quick followup, I believe the comment I replied to said Jesus was born in a cave. This is something recorded by Justin the Martyr [circa AD 160], and universally assumed across all ancient Eastern Christian churches.
I think Bailey could be making an assumption that it was a house, rather than a cave. I don't really have the research chops to figure that out one way or the other--but a quick google search says that homes carved out of a hillside weren't uncommon in first century Bethlehem. So it could have been a literal cave; but it was also probably the home of someone in Joseph's family.
But I think this is all really fascinating-- reading ANY literature (not just the bible) without understanding the culture of origin makes you miss so many things. On a related topic, there have been some pretty interesting AMA or ELI5 threads about what goes into a translation. You have to think about what the author meant to convey, and not just translate words literally, but translate that idea, or feeling, into something that the audience is going to understand. And it's a huge challenge.
Essentially what I put in the next 3 paragraphs. I paraphrased quite a bit since I'm relying somewhat on memory.
But basically, it's unlikely that Jesus was born in a barn with 'cattle lowing'. There could have easily been the family cow/ox/goat in the adjacent room given what we know about 1st century Palestinian homes.
I don't know what Bailey's background is exactly, but he studied and worked as a scholar and professor in the Middle East for at least a couple decades and knew a lot about the culture, both past and present. He's got a few books--namely "Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes"--where he goes deep in scripture and explains to a western audience what's happening. They are extremely dry, extremely scholarly, but can be interesting if you can get into the right mood. It takes me a while to digest. lol.
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